Hosts Dan Kammen and Claire Broido Johnson kick off Energy Matters with a candid look at the science, business, and urgency of the climate crisis. From clean cooking in Kenya to launching climate-tech startups, they share lessons learned, tackle gender and diversity in energy, and compare East vs. West Coast policies. It's the start of a fact-driven, no-nonsense conversation about how—and why—energy shapes our world. Email us at: info@energymatters.world Visit us online at: https://energymatters.world
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Dan Kammen: This is the Energy Matters podcast.
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I'm Dan Camon here with
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Claire Broido Johnson: Claire Broido Johnson,
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Dan Kammen: and today we will be introducing the series and
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ourselves before we get into all things energy all around the world.
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So what we're doing here.
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Is to talk about energy matters, both big and small, dirty and clean,
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just and unjust, helpful to the planet, not helpful to the planet.
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And we are hoping that what will come out of this podcast series is a series of
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things that Claire and I really want to talk to you about from energy efficiency
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to President Trump's HR one the big.
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Blanking bill to nuclear power to all manner of things.
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But also we want to use our website and our email addresses to get audience
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interaction topics you want us to do more on, do less on things that you agree and
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disagree, and really build this as a forum to talk about how much energy matters.
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We all hopefully know it does, but the question for us and for
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you is how does it matter in specific to all manner of topics?
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Claire Broido Johnson: All right, so we know there's a bunch of
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podcasts out there right now.
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There's Latitude Media.
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I'm, I'm a huge fan of Emily Kirsch's, what it takes, John
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Powers has a Clean Capital podcast.
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There's Suncast Media.
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We're different, or at least the way that we're trying to be different as
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we're talking very specifically about the science and business of energy.
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About climate investment startups and climate tech.
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Um, there's none that are really focused on just the facts
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behind science and business.
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And Dan and I go way back.
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So Dan, when was it that we first met?
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Dan Kammen: So I'd have to do the math on this one.
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It's definitely when dinosaurs roamed the earth, when fossil
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fuels were still being created.
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But I think that we got connected in roughly 1998 or so.
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Claire Broido Johnson: No.
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Oh, see, wrong day one.
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Next, 1992.
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Dan Kammen: Oh my goodness.
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Claire Broido Johnson: You were a mere postdoc And I had just finished
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my freshman year of college.
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And do you remember the name of the model that we worked on?
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Bill Nord house's dynamic integrated climate economy model.
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Dan Kammen: Right?
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The DICE model that has gone on to win for bill, the Nobel Prize
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in economics, and we'll talk about Nobel Prizes at later on point.
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But yes, we not only worked on that model, but we also worked on some
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risk assessment and you were amazing in helping me launch my far flung.
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Projects in Kenya that you can't do without someone on the US side, because
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back then there was no cell phones.
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Claire Broido Johnson: Right?
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Can you believe?
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Yeah.
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So tell me, so tell me a little bit about what you were doing in
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Kenya all the way back in 19 91, 92.
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Dan Kammen: And just so you know, I'm gonna ask.
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You the same thing.
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What were you doing back then as a freshman and sophomore at Harvard?
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But we'll get to that.
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So what I was trying to do way back then was to take my physics background,
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my hopefully reasonable skills in computing and building things.
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I had wanted to be an astronaut earlier on in life.
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Still do actually, um, and apply that to better, cleaner, safer,
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more sustainable cooking practices.
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And I guess things don't change that much because just earlier
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today with one of my students, we just published yet another paper on
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clean and dirty cooking in Africa.
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So all these decades later.
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Don't change much.
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Claire Broido Johnson: Isn't that crazy?
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Yeah.
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Dan Kammen: Now I gotta ask you the same question you I know came to Harvard
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thinking you'd be a physics major.
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Yep.
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So tell me what you were thinking as this amazing brain in the suburbs
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of Chicago, and then what changed for you when you got to Harvard?
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Claire Broido Johnson: I failed physics real bad.
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Dan Kammen: Well let, let's qualify that no one fails at Harvard.
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A gentle woman C is as low as you can get, but.
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Do tell.
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Claire Broido Johnson: Uh, so, yep.
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I grew up 30 miles west of Chicago in the corn fields and I did my science fair
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experiments in grade school on acid rain, and it's a focus on water environment.
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And I knew I wanted to do something with energy, but I thought physics
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was really cool at the time.
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Well, physics is still
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Dan Kammen: cool, by the way.
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Physics is
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Claire Broido Johnson: still cool.
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It's really hard.
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I think I had a 20% at one point in my freshman year in my physics class, so, um.
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Realized that wasn't gonna be my future.
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And, and, you know, energy and environment was something that was
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always really interesting to me.
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And, and got to, uh, thinking through how do you create a new major at Harvard?
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Well,
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Dan Kammen: I already got to say right there.
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So Claire saying, oh, she got a 20%.
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And that convinced her not to be a physics major.
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And what that means is something we'll also come back to,
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and that is gender in this.
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Sciences and gender and stem and gender and energy, because I
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distinctly remember as an undergraduate at Cornell in physics that.
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The top student, several classes in a row got under 20% and that was an a plus.
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And in other fields they thought, this is crazy.
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So physics does have its own language.
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Um, and we'll come back to some of these connections to Robert Oppenheimer,
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to all kinds of stuff, but the physics culture is not about getting
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a hundred percent, it's about being.
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Beat into the profession.
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So you might have actually been a physics major if you just read past the hype.
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Claire Broido Johnson: I don't know.
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I don't know.
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I will say Janet Conrad, I, I big shout out to Janet
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Conrad, who's a professor now.
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She was my mentor at Fair Me Lab when I worked there.
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And having a female mentor in the sciences is really why I am where I am today.
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And
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Dan Kammen: yeah,
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Claire Broido Johnson: and I'm looking forward to talking more about mentors
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in the, in the energy and science.
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Space and climate space.
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Yeah.
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Dan Kammen: And those of you who hang with us, we have episodes.
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Um, our third episode is going to be all about startup culture and mentors matter.
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And one of the other podcasts that Claire just mentioned, run
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by Emily Kirsch, who is sort of a source of renewable energy all by.
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She has not only mentored many women in the energy field, but she
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set up funds designed specifically to fund women in this field.
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So there are some really cool things that we will be coming back to again and again.
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Certainly climate change, smart energy systems.
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What is the smart grid?
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What's the dumb grid?
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What are the opportunities to think about energy just by itself?
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But also in a much more holistic way, fission fusion, the fossil
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fuels that we have already burned, those that we're going to burn,
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those that we don't need to burn.
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All of these things are topics that we hope you, the audience will be really
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interested in and will pull us back to as you feel like, oh, there's more
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I want to hear about this or that.
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Claire Broido Johnson: Yeah, so why are we doing this now?
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I think we're both really impatient.
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Dan Kammen: I know we're both brilliant patient
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Claire Broido Johnson: and we both spent our careers working on and trying to
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create solutions for climate change.
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Right.
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Dan Kammen: I think that's definitely one of the drivers.
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I think the other driver is that after being friends and
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colleagues and things for decades, we're now living 30 miles apart.
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Claire Broido Johnson: I know.
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And so it's
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Dan Kammen: much easier to get together.
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So
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Claire Broido Johnson: exciting.
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Yeah.
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So Dan, you just left Berkeley and came to the Baltimore DC area.
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We also are gonna have a podcast about the difference between east and
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west in energy in the United States.
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So tell us what caused you to move out here.
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Dan Kammen: Well, so, so to do that I gotta go all the way back to the
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other side and that as I was a junior faculty studying energy at Princeton.
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Um, and that was right after I met and worked with Claire and I moved
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out to California because so many interesting things were going on.
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And back in the late eighties and early nineties, it felt like most
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of the challenges that we knew to even put words to were technical,
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are solar cells cheap enough?
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Can we make wind turbines that work Lots of.
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Things where at least my physics background felt like it
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was the right starting point.
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Now we are here 25, really 30 years later, and there is so much that we need to do
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better on the science engineering side.
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But I would say one of the tag lines for me in this podcast series is
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gonna be our bigger challenges are now on the policy, the economics,
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the understanding side, and so.
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We are shifting into a world where if you're not super interdisciplinary
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Claire Broido Johnson: right,
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Dan Kammen: you're gonna really have a hard time getting somewhere.
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And old dogs like me who come out of the physics tradition, which
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comes out of the Manhattan Project tradition, are just not well equipped.
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And so I met this, uh, spunky, uh, college sophomore, and she taught me a lot about,
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you know, you gotta think differently.
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And things that I thought were like, you know.
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Words of the enemy, like business case and what is a pitch?
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And this kind of, I knew none of these things and you as a
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sophomore knew all that stuff.
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Claire Broido Johnson: Well, different, yeah.
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And I think one of the things, you know, just to put it out on the table is you've
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been a fantastic mentor to me, but I don't think I've ever taken any piece
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of advice that you've ever given me.
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Dan Kammen: So you're just like my kids.
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And I say there's no advice that ever offered.
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And I always say that my students, if they do what I say.
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They're not doing what they ultimately want to do.
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So you're in a fine tradition of ignoring me and I'm definitely used to it.
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Claire Broido Johnson: So I don't think we have particularly big
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egos and we don't need to be Right.
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But we do wanna be creating a podcast where facts are respected.
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Yeah.
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Um, and so that's part of what we're trying to do here is we.
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There's podcasts everywhere.
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There's lots of people that are talking about climate change right now.
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There's lots of talk about policy, but it's really hard to find a scientist
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like you who is also super involved with climate change and a business
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person like me, and have us be able to talk about really anything.
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Um, dicey issues.
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Not dicey issues.
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Um, you know, and, and I think that's what we're trying to
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do here is really bring up.
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Some of the big issues of the day, energy efficiency, what's
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happening with grid transmission?
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What are we gonna do with solar power?
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What are we doing with battery storage?
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Why is it so hard to get things passed in the DC administration?
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Maybe we know the answer to that, that, but, um, you know, what are our
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passions and interests and, and how can we work together to solve problems and
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interact with the people that are gonna be hopefully listening to this podcast
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to try to build solutions together.
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Dan Kammen: And certainly one of the things I'll want to do is to make sure
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that we give everybody multiple root ways to interact with us, to correct
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us, to say, you need to slow down, you need to do more, you need to do less.
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But you said something really critical there, Claire, and that is you said that.
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We have our own opinions, we have our ways of doing things, but we really
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do wanna make this a fact-based place.
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And so, you know, if someone in the administration says, well, sea level
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rise is happening because rocks are falling into the ocean, we are not
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gonna dwell on that for a long time.
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But the other side of it is that.
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One of the heroes in this field, a Marie Levin's, founder of the
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Rocky Mountain Institute is really fond of saying something that
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I think is right on the money.
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And he likes to say, in God, we trust everyone else, bring facts.
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And I hope that we will at least start with the facts and we'll
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give different interpretations.
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Um, we'll look at where are.
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The perspectives of where you come from or as they say where you
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stand is based on where you sit.
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But we will try to start with those and then try to understand for ourselves.
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'cause I don't think it's clear, no matter how many years you've been in the field,
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that people can look at the facts in the energy field and come up with dramatically
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different conclusions in terms of what we should do, shouldn't do policy-wise.
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And we're gonna try to really unpack a lot of that episode by episode.
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Claire Broido Johnson: Exciting.
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I'm ready for it.
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Dan Kammen: But I do also wanna highlight that there are some parts
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of kind of the energy climate.
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Landscape where I. The facts, the policies might not be agreed on by
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everybody, but the basics are clear.
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And there's other things, which it's not clear.
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I think that if you ask 10 experts, how do you make the grid smart?
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You'll get 13 answers
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Claire Broido Johnson: at least.
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Dan Kammen: And if you say, how do we think about?
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Big centralized power plants versus distributed energy mini
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grids, microgrids, metro grids.
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You'll also get like 13 answers for 10 experts.
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And so we do want to highlight some of the big issues in front of us.
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Just what will the president's, uh.
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HR one, the big blanking bill due to the energy field.
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Others, um, should you be investing more or less in nuclear fission
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fusion, small modular reactors?
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What do experts outside of just us think about carbon capture
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and various technologies?
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And we are gonna start much of the first season with Claire and I getting to know.
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You, the audience in terms of your interactions, but then we're going
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to increasingly bring in guests.
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So we have three-way conversations about these topics and you who stick with us
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and we hope you all do, and you tell your friends, we'll get to hear a wider and
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wider set of questions and topics about what are the challenges, what are the
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things being discussed to deal with them.
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Claire Broido Johnson: All right in the
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Dan Kammen: energy field.
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Claire Broido Johnson: So I wanna go back to, uh, what drew you
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from Berkeley back to Hopkins?
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Dan Kammen: Well, I mean, the easy answer is you played a big part in that because
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you started to alert a lot of folks at, um, at Johns Hopkins University that,
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you know, maybe someone in California was movable here at the time when.
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Hopkins is trying to launch something that I'm now central to, which is
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something called Rosie, the Ralph O'Connor Sustainable Energy Institute.
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But what really drew me back in a broader sense was the commitment of
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Mike Bloomberg himself, the effort at Johns Hopkins to engage in a very
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interdisciplinary way and energy issues, and the thing I said before, and that is.
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When I was new in the field and felt like the biggest challenges facing us
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in the energy world were innovations in solar cells, in batteries, in
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geothermal power, in tidal and wave power, that we needed to make some
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significant advances on the energy technology side, the energy science side.
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We still need them, but now increasingly it's about how to advance
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the community, not just individual.
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Projects, and I think for that, being near Washington DC no matter what
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the politics are, is a critical part of that story because we know how
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to make some individual innovations.
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But what it's clear is that we're moving way too slow.
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Least from my perspective on decarbonizing, greening the entire
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economy and bringing energy to the roughly 800 million people worldwide,
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many of whom are rural women who don't have access to electricity worldwide.
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And that's really where my own work focused in East Africa and
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Southeast Asia, in China, and at the grid level all around the world.
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This is a wonderful vantage point to try to make a difference, but
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really, Claire, you started the, uh, process to, you're giving
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Claire Broido Johnson: me too much credit.
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Move this.
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No, I don't think so.
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So I've been in Baltimore since 2002.
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I came to Constellation, um, after, uh, business school and after
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working at Enron, and we'll come
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Dan Kammen: back to this Enron thing in a second, folks.
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So, uh,
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Claire Broido Johnson: yeah, I don't know.
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But, uh, and then founded Son Edison here with Jigger Shaw.
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And I've been in Baltimore ever since, and Baltimore is a fantastic city.
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Um, and I'm just glad you're in DC now, so I'm glad we can have these conversations.
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Dan Kammen: Well, it's fun.
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And so one of the things that you highlighted, and we do have an episode
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on this, uh, later in season one, and that's about the differences in
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energy policy between east and West.
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And by east and west we mean.
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To extent the us what's going on in, um, on the eastern seaboard with the
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so-called Reggie, the Regional Greenhouse Gas Coalition, and then the northeast,
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um, the PJM, the Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Maryland area where we're
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in here compared to a dramatically different picture in California.
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And actually, uh.
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The governor of California who maybe, or maybe not, is running for president.
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It's hard to tell.
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Um, but there's such a different perspective.
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And after 25 years of the California energy climate scene, the East Coast takes
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some getting used to, to put it mildly.
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Claire Broido Johnson: Yeah.
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We're too fast.
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We're too slow.
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We're too what?
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Dan Kammen: Well, I mean, you know, I'm still learning.
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I've only been three weeks on the job here, so it may be a little early, but.
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From my perspective in California, you cannot start a conversation about
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an energy innovation without also thinking, I, I'd like to think deeply,
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but at least thinking about the climate impacts and also the diversity, equity,
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inclusion, the DEI, the justice, the inclusive transition aspects, even at
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a time when the federal government is trying to shut those programs down.
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And for us in California.
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Our climate laws, our energy laws, the advocacy groups are completely
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on the ball when it comes to how will this or that energy decision affect
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marginalized communities, women, fence line communities, people of
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color, both in California and beyond.
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And that language is pretty lacking here, from my perspective,
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very lacking here, a California.
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Claire Broido Johnson: Very lacking here.
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Yep.
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But I do think, I mean, you know, for.
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25, 30 years that I've been in this conversation.
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You know, everyone has always flocked to Silicon Valley, right?
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If you wanna get anything done, all the money is on Sandhill Road.
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You gotta go to Sandhill Road and you gotta pitch, and your
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CEO has to be based there.
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And even if you raise your first round of funding from, you know, in Baltimore
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by your series B, they're gonna wanna move your company to Silicon Valley.
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I'm not seeing that as much anymore.
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I'm really not.
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I think you can start, I mean, of course post COVID, you can
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start a company from anywhere.
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Right?
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But the investors are now in New York, right now, they're in Boston right now.
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They're not all in, in Northern California anymore.
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And that's, that's lovely.
00:19:07
Um, that makes it a little bit easier.
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I mean, my entire career, I've told everybody who's asked for advice that
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if you're, you know, just starting your career, you should go to.
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Silicon Valley, and I don't think that's necessarily true anymore.
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Dan Kammen: I mean, I think this is something we're gonna want to come
00:19:20
back to a bunch of ways when in, in the episodes we do on startups and
00:19:24
energy innovation, but even the broader picture, um, the Silicon Valley energy
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community was young and small when I got there in the late nineties.
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Now it is almost co-equal with the kind of the IT and the FinTech, the
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financial technology worlds that are huge.
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And so that's changed in California, but almost every place that I go and work, so.
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Morocco and Kenya and China, they are all sending representatives to
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learn how to translate or to take the pieces of the Silicon Valley culture
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back to their own ar their own areas.
00:20:03
And so Silicon Savannah is the term they use in Kenya.
00:20:07
Silicon sand is the term they use in Morocco.
00:20:11
Um, silicon, Amazon, which I'm not really sure flows off the tongue.
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Is the term that I was told to talk about at a panel we're
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looking to put together at COP 30.
00:20:22
And I hate to use acronyms, but COP is the conference of the parties.
00:20:27
The 21st COP was in Paris where something did get done.
00:20:32
Cop 15 in Copenhagen where nothing got done.
00:20:35
Cop 30 in, um, in, in Brazil, in Beem is going to be officially the last.
00:20:45
Cop that the US will participate in, at least under this administration.
00:20:50
And we pulled out of the conference of the parties, the
00:20:54
climate negotiations once before.
00:20:57
Um, it caused me to resign my federal job at the time over my anger and
00:21:02
discussed what the US was doing.
00:21:04
And this meeting in December in the Amazon.
00:21:10
Hopefully to be dominated by indigenous voices as well as government.
00:21:14
Bureaucrats is a place where the silicon Amazon is gonna come up again and again.
00:21:19
So what are the lessons from Silicon Valley for startups is I think, one of the
00:21:25
interesting features, but you're right.
00:21:26
It has diffused and diversified, and the California innovation ecosystem is
00:21:35
pretty full, but many others are not.
00:21:37
And so finding how to leverage, what does New York do, what does Paris do?
00:21:42
What does Beijing do?
00:21:43
What does Cape Town do?
00:21:45
Uh, what does Jakarta do?
00:21:46
Those are really interesting aspects of this broader picture because
00:21:51
no matter what your politics are.
00:21:54
It is clear that we are way too slow.
00:21:58
For the planet in terms of greening our energy system, politics, economics.
00:22:03
We'll talk about it, but the planet is telling us very clearly
00:22:07
you, the human infestation is not doing us any favors right now.
00:22:12
Claire Broido Johnson: You don't think 104 degrees in DC right now is pleasant?
00:22:15
Dan Kammen: Or just a little while ago when it was hotter in
00:22:18
Siberia than it was in Florida.
00:22:20
And obviously we've seen these.
00:22:22
These massive fires.
00:22:24
And so, no, I do not think 104 in DC works, nor do I think 95
00:22:29
in the Siberian Arctic works.
00:22:32
Claire Broido Johnson: It's crazy.
00:22:33
Yeah,
00:22:33
Dan Kammen: it's pretty scary out there.
00:22:34
So, uh, and many of you are, are, have stories about how dramatically
00:22:39
different the weather is.
00:22:41
Um, and of course, humans have at minimum.
00:22:44
Created a fifth season, right?
00:22:46
We used to have winter, summer, spring, and fall, but now we certainly around
00:22:50
the planet have winter, summer, spring, fall, and fire season at the minimum.
00:22:55
And I would say there's now flooding seasons.
00:22:58
Hurricane seasons.
00:23:00
We haven't even talked about crop failure seasons.
00:23:02
So the energy matters theme of this podcast is gonna extend in
00:23:07
a lot of different directions.
00:23:09
So I gotta ask you one more kind of launching question here.
00:23:13
Claire.
00:23:13
You mentioned how great a place Baltimore is.
00:23:16
Claire Broido Johnson: Yeah.
00:23:16
Dan Kammen: So one of the things that struck me right off, that kind
00:23:19
of fits into this theme and warms my Californian heart, is that there
00:23:24
are pretty interesting group of women energy leaders that you and
00:23:28
others have helped to cultivate.
00:23:29
Yep.
00:23:29
So just say a little bit about that because it's one of the themes that
00:23:33
I want to make sure is central to what we do in this series, not.
00:23:39
Kind of.
00:23:40
An afterthought, not a small bit.
00:23:42
I'm really hoping that diversity in the energy climate world is something that
00:23:47
the, uh, that, you know, we talk about a lot in substantive ways in this series.
00:23:51
Claire Broido Johnson: Yep.
00:23:52
I'm so glad you asked that question.
00:23:54
So I. When I started my career in the mid, late nineties, I was the
00:23:58
only woman in the room always.
00:24:02
And you know, even in Sun Edison, which is a company I co-founded, there were lots
00:24:07
of deals done in, you know, clandestine places with clandestine people, let's say.
00:24:14
Meaning men's locker
00:24:14
Dan Kammen: rooms is what you mean.
00:24:16
Claire Broido Johnson: Mm. Yeah.
00:24:17
And you know, I, I, I have spent a huge part of my career supporting women.
00:24:22
In the energy and climate space and trying to support them and would
00:24:25
love to hear from any of them, you know, whether it's helping them with
00:24:29
editing their resumes, giving them introductions, helping them decide how
00:24:33
to, how to pitch themselves, figuring out how to, you know, ask for a raise.
00:24:38
All of those.
00:24:39
Things, and I still do that.
00:24:40
I probably 20 people a month, I talk to about one of one or many of those things.
00:24:45
And there is a group of of women as particularly younger than
00:24:48
I am, who are really, they're starting their own companies.
00:24:52
They're supporting each other, they are listening.
00:24:55
They are trustworthy, they are trusting each other.
00:24:58
We created this group called the Maryland Women and Energy Group.
00:25:01
We meet for happy hours and try to support each other just locally.
00:25:05
Um, solar Energy Industry Association.
00:25:07
Abby Hopper has been a huge supporter of, of more women in the solar industry.
00:25:13
And she started a book club with women and she has a group called
00:25:16
Solar Sisters, um, where, you know, we all have to support each other.
00:25:21
And I think one of the things that.
00:25:23
You know, it's just warming.
00:25:24
My heart is seeing that people are finally realizing that women
00:25:28
solving climate change problems is something that's gonna help everyone.
00:25:31
Dan Kammen: So I gotta throw in one little teaser for our startup episode coming
00:25:36
up, and that is that a big study was done of energy startups in Silicon Valley.
00:25:42
Yeah.
00:25:42
And it was done by the Haas Business School at Berkeley.
00:25:46
And what they found is that.
00:25:49
Startups that are diverse both on racial and gender lines.
00:25:55
Raise more money and they actually stay on their, uh, on their
00:26:01
timelines, their Gantt charts.
00:26:02
And that is far more true, the more diverse your startup is.
00:26:07
And so it's not just that it's something we'd like talk about.
00:26:10
There's actually quantitative evidence that.
00:26:13
Diversity is a clear benefit, whether it's job wise or financial, and that's
00:26:20
something that I think gets lost.
00:26:21
Uh, certainly in the current attack that we're seeing on diversity,
00:26:25
there are clear, clear benefits of diversity and inclusion.
00:26:29
Not just some feel good woke concept, not that I'm against woke,
00:26:33
I actually like the concept of woke.
00:26:35
It means that you're aware of history, but we'll come back to that later.
00:26:39
Claire Broido Johnson: Well, and don't forget that less than 5%
00:26:41
of VC money goes to women founded companies across the board, not
00:26:44
just in our space, but everywhere.
00:26:46
And so it's still, it's a, still a really, you know, tough road
00:26:49
to climb and you know, not.
00:26:51
Not so long ago when I was trying to join an investment
00:26:54
group somewhere close to here.
00:26:56
Um, I went through the final round of interviews and one of the first questions
00:27:01
they asked seven men and I at a dinner said, we know that you have little kids.
00:27:06
How do we know that you're gonna do a good job in investing with us?
00:27:09
And my response was, do you ask that question of everyone that you interview?
00:27:15
They said, yes, yes we do.
00:27:17
And after that interview, I was told I was being too aggressive.
00:27:21
Needless to say, I didn't join that investment group, and when I invest on
00:27:25
my own, just personally, I try to only invest in female founded companies.
00:27:30
Dan Kammen: And just to kind of throw the numbers out at another level, I
00:27:34
think if you look at current and recent past heads of state around the planet,
00:27:39
the economies that have done the best.
00:27:43
Have been women led nations.
00:27:45
So I think there's even data at a much higher level to say, at minimum, by
00:27:51
discounting women, by discounting people of color, by discounting those who are
00:27:56
different than the blue suit wearing.
00:27:59
People who went to just great tech bros, tech bros. I was trying to
00:28:02
be a little broader, but yeah, tech Bros will work that again.
00:28:06
I think there is ample data, not just ample opinion, that diversity
00:28:11
is a benefit and you don't hear that unfortunately in DC today.
00:28:14
It's a sad, it's a sad avoidance of the truth, uh, in, in favor of some
00:28:20
weird retrospective view of America.
00:28:24
Claire Broido Johnson: Of what America could, America could
00:28:26
have been back in the day.
00:28:27
Dan Kammen: So just kind of to wrap things up a little bit, um, we are
00:28:30
gonna try to solicit, uh, input and comments from the people who listen
00:28:35
in terms of topics to go back to.
00:28:38
We're certainly gonna talk about things like women in energy, the future,
00:28:42
and the presdo, nuclear power fission infusion, the solar under different techs.
00:28:48
Regimes good and bad.
00:28:50
We'll also be highlighting things like, where does energy and climate
00:28:54
issues appear in the movies?
00:28:55
Where do we see topics?
00:28:57
That energy is actually fundamental to it, but you don't see it.
00:29:01
So we're gonna try to explore that landscape.
00:29:03
We'll be giving you the website, we'll be giving you the email addresses
00:29:07
so you can track us down hopefully in a. Easy way because we really
00:29:12
do wanna make this interactive.
00:29:13
And this is just intro episode.
00:29:16
But we really want to thank you all for tuning in and
00:29:19
starting the journey with us.
00:29:21
Claire Broido Johnson: Alright?
00:29:21
And if you wanna learn more, you can go to Energy Matters World or you can reach
00:29:27
out to us at info@energymatters.world.