After a recent accident totaled her Prius Prime, Claire is in the market for a new car — but with a 6'5" husband, a narrow Baltimore parking pad, and strong opinions about trillionaire tech CEOs, the decision isn't simple. In this episode, Claire and Dan go head-to-head on hybrids vs. full EVs, cost of ownership myths, charging infrastructure reality (yes, even in small towns), and whether environmental impact truly favors electric. They dig into cobalt-free batteries, carbon payback timelines, and the surprising global innovation the U.S. may be shutting itself out of. Hosts: Claire Broido Johnson and Dan Kammen
NOTE This file was generated by Descript
00:00:03 --> 00:00:05 Transportation Revolution.
00:00:05 --> 00:00:07 AKA Claire buys a car.
00:00:07 --> 00:00:10 This is energy Matters with Claire and Dan.
00:00:18 --> 00:00:19 This is gonna be so much fun.
00:00:19 --> 00:00:25 Claire, I got so many questions for you today, but first, to set the stage before
00:00:25 --> 00:00:27 we get into any energy specific stuff.
00:00:28 --> 00:00:31 Tell me the conditions under which you are now gonna buy a car.
00:00:31 --> 00:00:38 So, um, my 15-year-old son and I got in a car accident several weeks ago in
00:00:38 --> 00:00:41 our Prius Prime, our 2021 Prius Prime.
00:00:41 --> 00:00:43 It was not my fault.
00:00:43 --> 00:00:45 Somebody drove into our lane.
00:00:45 --> 00:00:48 I will say that as a very safe car.
00:00:48 --> 00:00:51 Our airbags were, uh, it, you know.
00:00:51 --> 00:00:57 Unloaded and we all were able to walk out and I'm very, very grateful, uh, for that.
00:00:58 --> 00:01:02 But yes, my family and I are in the market for a new car and
00:01:02 --> 00:01:04 we have a couple requirements.
00:01:04 --> 00:01:11 One is that my husband fits in it and he's 6 5 2 is that it fits in my parking pad.
00:01:11 --> 00:01:14 And we live in a, a row home in Federal Hill.
00:01:14 --> 00:01:15 So that is.
00:01:15 --> 00:01:20 Not, you know, the easiest feat and three, that it is either a
00:01:20 --> 00:01:22 hybrid or an electric vehicle.
00:01:23 --> 00:01:26 So first I get to say the quote has become like popular in.
00:01:28 --> 00:01:29 I guess social media these days.
00:01:29 --> 00:01:32 And that is, thank goodness you guys are all okay.
00:01:32 --> 00:01:35 And you guys should have gotten out the car and say, stay in your lane, dude.
00:01:36 --> 00:01:37 No, but I
00:01:37 --> 00:01:39 guess that wasn't your response when, uh, this accident
00:01:39 --> 00:01:41 happened with the, uh, crisis.
00:01:41 --> 00:01:41 So yeah.
00:01:42 --> 00:01:46 You said a bunch of interesting things and the, the, the size of your husband,
00:01:46 --> 00:01:49 the, uh, parking space, they seem to be going in opposite directions.
00:01:49 --> 00:01:49 Yes.
00:01:49 --> 00:01:50 But let me get the basics.
00:01:51 --> 00:01:51 Yeah.
00:01:51 --> 00:01:52 Tell me why.
00:01:52 --> 00:01:58 Whether it's personal choice, lifestyle, um, do one up on your neighbors,
00:01:58 --> 00:01:59 do one down to your neighbors.
00:01:59 --> 00:02:03 You decided to look at hybrids and EVs only.
00:02:03 --> 00:02:03 Yeah.
00:02:03 --> 00:02:06 So depending on which side of the aisle you're on.
00:02:06 --> 00:02:10 Many people think I'm an idiot for getting a hybrid as opposed
00:02:10 --> 00:02:12 to, uh, fully electric vehicle.
00:02:12 --> 00:02:13 That'd be me.
00:02:13 --> 00:02:13 I'm in that category.
00:02:14 --> 00:02:18 Okay, well we had this Prius Prime, a 2021 Prius Prime.
00:02:18 --> 00:02:22 We ended up paying $19 for it after rebates and all that good stuff.
00:02:22 --> 00:02:28 Of course, now in 2025, after September 30th, all of those rebates have gone away.
00:02:28 --> 00:02:30 Um, but I, we loved our hybrid.
00:02:30 --> 00:02:31 It really.
00:02:32 --> 00:02:35 When you think about buying a car, you think have to think about how many people
00:02:35 --> 00:02:39 are traveling with you, the distances you're traveling, the part of the country
00:02:39 --> 00:02:41 you're in, all of that good stuff.
00:02:41 --> 00:02:45 So we live in Baltimore and typically we're going to pick up a kid
00:02:45 --> 00:02:49 from soccer or drop off a kid to something else or go to the Costco.
00:02:49 --> 00:02:54 So our Prius Prime, our little Prius Prime with nine gallons of gas, we would get a
00:02:54 --> 00:02:59 hundred miles per gallon on our, on our car because most of our trips were small
00:02:59 --> 00:03:01 little trips to and from here and there.
00:03:01 --> 00:03:05 So, Claire, you said that you were really interested in hybrids, and
00:03:05 --> 00:03:09 I have nothing against hybrid, except in my view, dragging around a
00:03:09 --> 00:03:14 combustion engine and your electric battery sounds like a horrifically
00:03:14 --> 00:03:18 inefficient use of whatever, but that's, that's, you know, that's your choice.
00:03:18 --> 00:03:19 And this episode is Claire buys a car.
00:03:19 --> 00:03:25 But I did just drive cross country as I moved from California to
00:03:25 --> 00:03:27 Washington, DC and Baltimore.
00:03:27 --> 00:03:31 And I drove across in my personal car, which to be totally transparent, is a
00:03:31 --> 00:03:38 Tesla model three, and has the big bumper sticker saying, I bought this before
00:03:38 --> 00:03:42 he knew he went crazy, which is maybe a two week excuse, but that's the excuse.
00:03:43 --> 00:03:46 And I drove through many, many red states intentionally, and I
00:03:46 --> 00:03:48 had no problem not only charging.
00:03:49 --> 00:03:52 But also supercharging in small towns.
00:03:52 --> 00:03:57 I actually went to a ZZ Top revival concert in Texas and I charged up
00:03:57 --> 00:04:03 outside of that ZZ Top concert where I got to listen to all the classic
00:04:03 --> 00:04:08 sharp dressed man and others, and what I saw were very large EVs.
00:04:08 --> 00:04:09 I saw the.
00:04:10 --> 00:04:11 Tesla monstrosity.
00:04:11 --> 00:04:14 I saw the Ford one 50 Lightning.
00:04:14 --> 00:04:19 There were EVs everywhere, and so my question comes back to you.
00:04:19 --> 00:04:23 I'm, I have nothing against your choice, but when you say a
00:04:23 --> 00:04:26 hybrid is less expensive, that's actually not what my friend.
00:04:26 --> 00:04:31 Professor Jessica Transic in the School of Data Science and Brain Science
00:04:31 --> 00:04:37 at MIT wrote in a really interesting super well animated article in the
00:04:37 --> 00:04:41 New York Times in 2021, and we'll share the link on Energy Matters
00:04:41 --> 00:04:46 World where she found that the cost of ownership for EVs way back in 2021.
00:04:47 --> 00:04:49 Was lower than that for hybrids.
00:04:49 --> 00:04:51 So that's really interesting.
00:04:51 --> 00:04:54 So let's, let's go back to the New York Times for just a moment because the
00:04:54 --> 00:04:59 New York Times also had a really good interactive article about the Ev Chargers
00:04:59 --> 00:05:03 road trip and underscored exactly what you just said Is that, which is that
00:05:03 --> 00:05:04 fast charging stations in the US as.
00:05:04 --> 00:05:09 Soared a number from around a thousand a decade ago to 12 today.
00:05:09 --> 00:05:14 And despite the Trump administration's active hostility towards EVs and
00:05:14 --> 00:05:17 its attempts to end federal funding for public chargers, the private
00:05:17 --> 00:05:20 sector is taking the slack and there are still new stations going up.
00:05:21 --> 00:05:22 You know, 2000 so far this year.
00:05:23 --> 00:05:25 The thing that I, um.
00:05:25 --> 00:05:29 Um, and so I, and I think it's really worth writing, uh, reading.
00:05:29 --> 00:05:33 And again, we will post this article on Energy Matters world.
00:05:33 --> 00:05:35 Take a look and send some comments.
00:05:35 --> 00:05:37 Fast structures are key to have an EV road trip, right?
00:05:37 --> 00:05:39 'cause they can fill up a car at around a half hour.
00:05:40 --> 00:05:42 Part of the reason I've been thinking about hybrids is
00:05:42 --> 00:05:44 they really do seem cheaper.
00:05:44 --> 00:05:48 Like, I guess I, I'm gonna go have to go back and look at that article, but
00:05:48 --> 00:05:52 we bought our Prius Prime for 19 bucks, which is kind of hard to beat.
00:05:52 --> 00:05:53 I can't imagine.
00:05:53 --> 00:05:54 And so.
00:05:54 --> 00:05:56 Yes, we are looking for a car.
00:05:56 --> 00:06:01 And we looked at the Kia Niro and even that, which I would
00:06:01 --> 00:06:02 argue is a very small car.
00:06:02 --> 00:06:06 The MSRP is 42.
00:06:06 --> 00:06:06 That's
00:06:06 --> 00:06:08 the manufacturer's suggested retail price.
00:06:09 --> 00:06:13 Yes sir. Yes sir. And of course they do want you to use their
00:06:13 --> 00:06:16 financing and they'll give you a discount and blah, blah, blah.
00:06:17 --> 00:06:18 Um, but.
00:06:19 --> 00:06:22 19 versus 42.
00:06:22 --> 00:06:25 I guess what you're talking about is the lifetime value of the car, right?
00:06:25 --> 00:06:28 Well, no, not even the lifetime, actually, the short ownership time, so.
00:06:30 --> 00:06:35 In this article that Professor Jessica Transic put together, she found that
00:06:35 --> 00:06:38 even if you're only looking at a relatively short window, because the
00:06:38 --> 00:06:41 lifetime of a car is not the time period of which many people own their
00:06:41 --> 00:06:45 car, you might own for three or five or seven years, but the car might last
00:06:45 --> 00:06:48 much longer, that EVs were cheaper.
00:06:49 --> 00:06:53 And furthermore, having just been back from visiting the VIN fast.
00:06:54 --> 00:07:01 Company in Vietnam, they make EVs of all sizes from tiny town cars to big SUVs.
00:07:01 --> 00:07:05 And yes, my lab does have one of their big SUVs, so that's truth in advertising.
00:07:06 --> 00:07:13 They are now selling a four, four seat town ev with 120 mile range.
00:07:14 --> 00:07:17 For $8
00:07:17 --> 00:07:18 in the United States,
00:07:18 --> 00:07:21 it is just being licensed here now.
00:07:21 --> 00:07:21 Okay.
00:07:21 --> 00:07:26 And so there's an opportunity, but also Tata Energy Motors from India also has
00:07:26 --> 00:07:28 their version in the same price range.
00:07:29 --> 00:07:35 And so I am never would I say that, you know, my business savvy economist
00:07:35 --> 00:07:41 believing co-partner in this whole effort, Claire is ever not up with the latest
00:07:41 --> 00:07:43 data, but it sure looks to, I guess I'm.
00:07:44 --> 00:07:47 A, you know, a dreamy eyed Californian.
00:07:47 --> 00:07:53 And of course in California we have 201 charging stations, and in China
00:07:53 --> 00:07:55 they have 12 million charging stations.
00:07:55 --> 00:08:02 Now California has about 2.2 million EVs and China just eclipsed 30 million EVs.
00:08:02 --> 00:08:04 And how many are in the entire United States?
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 So that number I don't have at the tip of my tongue, I'm gonna
00:08:08 --> 00:08:11 guess it is roughly 5 million.
00:08:11 --> 00:08:15 But I'm sure some of our listeners will prove us wrong with more
00:08:15 --> 00:08:19 accurate number, but my estimate would be five to 6 million in the us.
00:08:19 --> 00:08:20 Okay.
00:08:20 --> 00:08:22 So I'm gonna be skeptical here for a minute.
00:08:22 --> 00:08:26 So two questions I have back to you is that.
00:08:26 --> 00:08:30 My understanding is EVs generally have a larger initial carbon
00:08:30 --> 00:08:35 footprint than internal combustion engines vehicles because of the
00:08:35 --> 00:08:40 inten energy intensive process of manufacturing the lithium ion batteries.
00:08:40 --> 00:08:45 So explain to me why I am being a good environmentalist by buying an ev.
00:08:45 --> 00:08:49 Let's not talk hybrids versus EVs right now, but just an EV at all.
00:08:50 --> 00:08:53 Explain to me why it's better as an environmentalist to buy this
00:08:53 --> 00:08:55 larger initial carbon footprint.
00:08:56 --> 00:08:58 Than an, than an internal combustion engine.
00:08:59 --> 00:09:02 So this is so cool, and I, I recognize that Claire, you have managed to
00:09:02 --> 00:09:07 distract me from interrogating you and your car choice, but it's so much fun.
00:09:07 --> 00:09:11 So first of all, my number of about 5 million EVs in the US is
00:09:11 --> 00:09:15 correct as confirmed by a AI system.
00:09:15 --> 00:09:17 I will not identify by name over the air.
00:09:18 --> 00:09:23 Um, but the reason why the EVs are in general better, but you can, as
00:09:23 --> 00:09:25 you're highlighting, you can do worse.
00:09:25 --> 00:09:31 Um, than the carbon footprint of your conventional gas powered vehicle, which
00:09:31 --> 00:09:36 we call ICE and internal Convention, combustion engine car versus an ev.
00:09:36 --> 00:09:37 Is that.
00:09:38 --> 00:09:42 Car manufacturers want to sell you cars that have more range because they
00:09:42 --> 00:09:45 think that will reduce range anxiety.
00:09:45 --> 00:09:49 So you tend to buy bigger than you need because it sounds like a good thing to
00:09:49 --> 00:09:52 do, and that means a higher sticker price.
00:09:52 --> 00:09:55 That MSRP number you highlighted before.
00:09:55 --> 00:09:59 But the interesting feature is that over the last several years,
00:09:59 --> 00:10:01 a number of very prominent.
00:10:01 --> 00:10:08 Electric vehicle manufacturers, including VW and including Tesla, have switched
00:10:08 --> 00:10:12 away from lithium ion batteries, which is in your laptop and your phone.
00:10:12 --> 00:10:17 They have shifted to lithium phosphate batteries with very
00:10:17 --> 00:10:19 slightly poorer performance.
00:10:19 --> 00:10:22 But the big difference is that lithium phosphate.
00:10:22 --> 00:10:26 Does not involve cobalt, which is certainly one of the worst
00:10:26 --> 00:10:30 offenders in terms of a critical material that's bad for the planet.
00:10:30 --> 00:10:35 Not that the material is, but the way we extract, it's bad for the planet, largely
00:10:35 --> 00:10:37 from the Democratic Republic of Congo.
00:10:37 --> 00:10:38 70% of.
00:10:38 --> 00:10:40 Current cobalt comes from there.
00:10:40 --> 00:10:46 And because a lot of that mining is done by small illegal operations, a
00:10:46 --> 00:10:48 lot of those mines use child labor.
00:10:48 --> 00:10:51 And so there are multiple negatives.
00:10:51 --> 00:10:55 But as we look at this new wave of lithium phosphate, which is not the
00:10:55 --> 00:10:59 end of the line, it's just the next innovation, we already see that the carbon
00:10:59 --> 00:11:04 footprint of those electric vehicles is not that different than gas vehicles.
00:11:04 --> 00:11:07 And then when you include just a few months of use.
00:11:09 --> 00:11:10 Well, that's what I thought you were gonna say, right?
00:11:11 --> 00:11:11 Nope.
00:11:11 --> 00:11:13 I, I was, I was saving that for the end.
00:11:13 --> 00:11:13 See?
00:11:13 --> 00:11:13 Okay.
00:11:13 --> 00:11:17 Because the incremental carbon footprint for an EV versus an
00:11:17 --> 00:11:19 internal combustion engine car.
00:11:20 --> 00:11:26 Would be in the range of 2.8 to 6.3 tons as I understand it, of, of carbon dioxide
00:11:26 --> 00:11:31 per vehicle, and that this upfront carbon debt is typically quickly paid back
00:11:31 --> 00:11:35 once the vehicle's driven, especially in regions with low carbon electricity.
00:11:36 --> 00:11:36 Right?
00:11:36 --> 00:11:36 So, so
00:11:36 --> 00:11:37 two ways to think about that.
00:11:37 --> 00:11:42 One is that if you drive an electric vehicle in an, in a state with very
00:11:42 --> 00:11:49 clean energy, say California or Washington, or Vermont, then in that case.
00:11:49 --> 00:11:54 That electric vehicle, that same exact vehicle, is getting about twice
00:11:54 --> 00:11:59 the equivalent mile per gallon, but we're not using gallons as that, that
00:11:59 --> 00:12:04 same vehicle would in a very cold intensive state like Wyoming or Indiana.
00:12:05 --> 00:12:09 So same vehicle, different electricity makes you get a big difference.
00:12:09 --> 00:12:13 But I think that the, the way that I tend to tell my students is that when you see
00:12:13 --> 00:12:15 a gas powered vehicle driving around.
00:12:16 --> 00:12:21 A good rule of thumb is that over the course of one year of average driving
00:12:21 --> 00:12:28 kind of eight to 11 miles a year, your internal combustion car is going
00:12:28 --> 00:12:30 to emit about its own weight in carbon.
00:12:30 --> 00:12:30 Right.
00:12:31 --> 00:12:33 That's the bananas and you, yeah, and you get a
00:12:33 --> 00:12:38 tiny number from your electric vehicle, and it's really only a function of what we
00:12:38 --> 00:12:40 call the carbon intensity of electricity.
00:12:41 --> 00:12:44 And that's something that this article by Jessica Tran, just like nails.
00:12:45 --> 00:12:45 Okay.
00:12:45 --> 00:12:46 We'll have to go back and look at it.
00:12:46 --> 00:12:51 Another visual that I, I thought was really helpful is a 20 mile drive.
00:12:51 --> 00:12:55 Just a regular 20 mile drive and an regular car, not an electric vehicle,
00:12:55 --> 00:12:59 releases 10 pounds of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, which would take
00:12:59 --> 00:13:02 one tree six months to recapture.
00:13:03 --> 00:13:08 Um, so, you know, I think that is like, it's just from an environmental
00:13:08 --> 00:13:12 perspective, we should all be sitting where we are and doing Zoom
00:13:12 --> 00:13:13 calls for the rest of our life.
00:13:13 --> 00:13:13 Right.
00:13:13 --> 00:13:13 Okay.
00:13:13 --> 00:13:14 So now
00:13:14 --> 00:13:17 I'm gonna pull this topic back to what I really wanna tease you about and
00:13:17 --> 00:13:20 that is the Claire buys a car story.
00:13:20 --> 00:13:24 So I know your son and your son got to drive around on my
00:13:24 --> 00:13:26 e-bike provided by Vin Fast.
00:13:26 --> 00:13:26 Yes, he did.
00:13:26 --> 00:13:28 And seemed to like it quite a bit.
00:13:28 --> 00:13:28 Yep.
00:13:29 --> 00:13:33 And so I thought one of your criteria was gonna be when my
00:13:33 --> 00:13:36 son gets his driving license.
00:13:36 --> 00:13:40 I want to be able to say that he is from the new generation
00:13:40 --> 00:13:44 and will never be a driver.
00:13:45 --> 00:13:49 Of a gas powered car, 'cause I'm gonna move him into the world of the
00:13:49 --> 00:13:53 electrify, everything clean energy future, unless he becomes a farmer.
00:13:54 --> 00:13:58 And then tractors and things are probably gonna be slower to convert than others,
00:13:58 --> 00:13:59 although there's effort there too.
00:14:00 --> 00:14:01 There's effort there too, right.
00:14:01 --> 00:14:01 But correct me 'cause
00:14:02 --> 00:14:03 I'm sure I'm wrong about all that.
00:14:03 --> 00:14:04 No, no, no.
00:14:04 --> 00:14:04 Not at all.
00:14:04 --> 00:14:07 I mean, we are gonna buy an electric vehicle of some kind
00:14:07 --> 00:14:08 or a hybrid of some kind.
00:14:08 --> 00:14:11 I think one of the things I wanted to talk with you about, 'cause I don't,
00:14:11 --> 00:14:14 I actually don't have the answer to this question, is a huge part of the
00:14:14 --> 00:14:18 discussion, at least when we talk about batteries to generate electricity.
00:14:18 --> 00:14:24 What batteries are available in the supply chain and what's gonna be available soon
00:14:24 --> 00:14:29 relative to foreign entities of concern and, you know, where you're able to
00:14:29 --> 00:14:32 buy your electric, your batteries from?
00:14:32 --> 00:14:33 What?
00:14:33 --> 00:14:34 What's the answer to that?
00:14:34 --> 00:14:39 So this is super exciting and definitely ties a lot of stuff we have talked
00:14:39 --> 00:14:40 about and we'll talk about together.
00:14:40 --> 00:14:45 So I already mentioned that this push into lithium phosphate didn't come
00:14:45 --> 00:14:46 from some great environmental movement.
00:14:47 --> 00:14:51 It came from easier, more secure and lower cost supply chains than.
00:14:52 --> 00:14:55 Cobalt that's needed in lithium ion batteries.
00:14:55 --> 00:14:56 So lithium phosphate, well, they are
00:14:56 --> 00:14:58 less likely to catch on fire.
00:14:58 --> 00:14:59 Let's be
00:14:59 --> 00:14:59 clear.
00:14:59 --> 00:14:59 That is true.
00:14:59 --> 00:15:02 Although I, I, I believe that issue is overblown.
00:15:02 --> 00:15:04 But let's leave that for another episode.
00:15:04 --> 00:15:08 There have been a very few high profile cars catching on fire, but there have been
00:15:08 --> 00:15:10 some, so I don't want to dis dismiss it.
00:15:10 --> 00:15:13 And certainly when you get told, when you get on an airplane that
00:15:13 --> 00:15:15 your battery needs to be not in your.
00:15:16 --> 00:15:19 Not in your compartment with you because of that, that's an issue.
00:15:19 --> 00:15:24 But lithium phosphate is just the first of a new wave.
00:15:24 --> 00:15:28 There's a whole range of solid state batteries, and I, again, just
00:15:28 --> 00:15:32 in China, and it's an example of markets of which the current US
00:15:32 --> 00:15:35 administration is cutting itself out of.
00:15:35 --> 00:15:40 I saw huge billboards in multiple airports saying batteries from a certain
00:15:40 --> 00:15:43 company, one particular provider is CATL.
00:15:44 --> 00:15:51 And the CATL battery can recharge 300 miles of range in 10 minutes.
00:15:51 --> 00:15:56 And now there's a new competitor out that says they can recharge to
00:15:56 --> 00:16:02 their solid state battery a thousand miles of range in two minutes.
00:16:03 --> 00:16:03 Damn,
00:16:03 --> 00:16:06 you can't even get to the bathroom and back in two minutes, let
00:16:06 --> 00:16:08 alone do your business there.
00:16:08 --> 00:16:12 But are you, I mean, are we gonna be able to see this, these, this
00:16:12 --> 00:16:14 technology in the United States?
00:16:14 --> 00:16:14 They're already for
00:16:14 --> 00:16:15 sale in China.
00:16:15 --> 00:16:17 They're already the for sale in France.
00:16:17 --> 00:16:18 No, no, no.
00:16:18 --> 00:16:20 But, but I mean, but the fact that in the US.
00:16:20 --> 00:16:25 We are trying to keep these foreign companies out and slow
00:16:25 --> 00:16:26 down the rate of innovation.
00:16:26 --> 00:16:27 The answer is yes.
00:16:27 --> 00:16:31 We already have lithium phosphate batteries for sale in the us,
00:16:31 --> 00:16:34 in Teslas, in VWs, et cetera.
00:16:34 --> 00:16:38 But what we do not have, because the US is choosing to shoot itself in the foot
00:16:38 --> 00:16:40 or the tire or whatever you wanna say.
00:16:41 --> 00:16:46 Is that we are leaving the exciting cutting edge of many technologies,
00:16:46 --> 00:16:51 electric vehicles included to our overseas competitors because this administration
00:16:51 --> 00:16:52 seems to be afraid of competition.
00:16:53 --> 00:16:54 Right, right.
00:16:54 --> 00:16:58 And the punchline is EVs produce much less carbon pollution than
00:16:58 --> 00:17:02 gas and diesel vehicles on a per mile basis, on a lifecycle basis.
00:17:03 --> 00:17:05 And that's from the Environmental Protection Agency.
00:17:05 --> 00:17:09 And we will post those links on energy matters world, but that, you know,
00:17:09 --> 00:17:12 transportation's the leading emission sector in the coun in the United
00:17:12 --> 00:17:14 States and the largest emitter in Los.
00:17:14 --> 00:17:20 Of states, um, EVs produce less emissions per mile when charged up from the grid,
00:17:20 --> 00:17:22 particularly depending on where you are.
00:17:22 --> 00:17:23 If you're in New England, it's a cleaner.
00:17:23 --> 00:17:27 Maryland is, has a lot of nuclear, it's cleaner, so you know,
00:17:27 --> 00:17:30 without battery electric vehicles or plug-in hybrid vehicles.
00:17:31 --> 00:17:37 The average real world per mile emissions or fuel con fuel economy of new vehicles
00:17:37 --> 00:17:41 would've barely changed in the past 10 years, which is really interesting.
00:17:41 --> 00:17:41 And this is crazy
00:17:42 --> 00:17:44 because innovation means we could do so much better.
00:17:44 --> 00:17:50 And I guess the thing that irks me from a economic perspective, not
00:17:51 --> 00:17:55 not the sustainability perspective, is that electric vehicles are also
00:17:55 --> 00:17:58 massively cheaper to own and operate.
00:17:58 --> 00:18:00 They require far less maintenance.
00:18:01 --> 00:18:04 There's no issue that has been recorded in terms of this early,
00:18:04 --> 00:18:08 early fear that somehow the battery's going to need replaced often, and the
00:18:08 --> 00:18:14 cost to operate a electric vehicle can be a third or less the cost to
00:18:14 --> 00:18:16 operate a same size, same weight.
00:18:17 --> 00:18:18 Gas powered vehicle.
00:18:18 --> 00:18:24 So we are denying higher reliability, lower cost to American consumers
00:18:24 --> 00:18:29 because some people in the US seem to have this aversion or
00:18:29 --> 00:18:31 allergy to this new technology.
00:18:31 --> 00:18:36 And by the way, not that I want my local state trooper to know, but I unfortunately
00:18:36 --> 00:18:39 received my worst speeding tickets.
00:18:39 --> 00:18:45 By zipping along at a very, very healthy speed in my ev, far faster
00:18:45 --> 00:18:48 than I could ever go in any gas powered car I've ever owned.
00:18:49 --> 00:18:54 So, so Claire, I gotta ask to wrap this episode up because eventually we're
00:18:54 --> 00:18:56 gonna wanna see a picture of what you do.
00:18:56 --> 00:19:00 But what are your, what are you, what are your favorites and why?
00:19:00 --> 00:19:03 And doesn't mean have to be brand, it has to be what's interesting to you.
00:19:04 --> 00:19:05 Now in this space.
00:19:05 --> 00:19:07 So I, we just can't buy a Tesla.
00:19:07 --> 00:19:09 We just aren't gonna do it.
00:19:09 --> 00:19:10 We're just simply not gonna do it.
00:19:10 --> 00:19:11 I think you're right
00:19:11 --> 00:19:15 on the money there or right on the lack of money or whatever you want to call it.
00:19:15 --> 00:19:15 The
00:19:15 --> 00:19:16 ionic are very cute.
00:19:16 --> 00:19:16 No trillionaires, no
00:19:16 --> 00:19:17 kings.
00:19:17 --> 00:19:18 No trillionaires, no kings.
00:19:18 --> 00:19:19 That's right.
00:19:19 --> 00:19:21 I, I do like the ionic.
00:19:21 --> 00:19:23 It's actually a pretty car.
00:19:23 --> 00:19:25 Um, I'm a big fan of the Kia.
00:19:25 --> 00:19:28 The, uh, Nero, um.
00:19:30 --> 00:19:33 I still like my Prius Prime, the Toyota Prius Prime.
00:19:33 --> 00:19:34 It's a hybrid.
00:19:34 --> 00:19:36 You haven't really convinced me about a hybrid versus an ev.
00:19:37 --> 00:19:38 I'm still, well, you already
00:19:38 --> 00:19:41 said that you'd never take any advice I give you, so this is exactly par
00:19:41 --> 00:19:42 for the course, and I'm loving it
00:19:43 --> 00:19:44 though.
00:19:44 --> 00:19:45 I mean, though, I, I am.
00:19:45 --> 00:19:49 Thrilled to see in all of my brethren in the EV space, the fact that
00:19:49 --> 00:19:51 there are fast chargers everywhere.
00:19:51 --> 00:19:55 I mean, we could do a whole episode to explain to people who have an electric
00:19:55 --> 00:19:59 vehicle, what is the actual charge and how do you compare the charge of
00:19:59 --> 00:20:04 filling up your tank at $3 a gallon versus 24 cents a kilowatt hour?
00:20:05 --> 00:20:05 I mean.
00:20:05 --> 00:20:08 You know, that's, that's confusing enough, right?
00:20:08 --> 00:20:08 Well,
00:20:08 --> 00:20:13 let me give you one closing kind of thing that I saw on the ground in Singapore.
00:20:13 --> 00:20:17 I saw a whole row of electric vehicles in a parking lot.
00:20:18 --> 00:20:22 And a drone robot drove around the ground and it was shaped like a
00:20:22 --> 00:20:28 pancake, and it went and drove under each EV and asked the owner via text,
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30 do you want me to charge you up?
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33 Just like your electric toothbrush doesn't actually connect, and you had
00:20:33 --> 00:20:38 to type yes or no on your phone, and it asked you for a credit card number
00:20:38 --> 00:20:39 and then it charged your car up.
00:20:39 --> 00:20:41 And these drones drove around.
00:20:41 --> 00:20:45 And now I've seen that if you go on YouTube, you can find pictures of these
00:20:45 --> 00:20:46 drones and they have two applications.
00:20:47 --> 00:20:49 One is they go and they charge your car.
00:20:49 --> 00:20:54 And then I saw a quite scarier picture of a similar looking drone
00:20:54 --> 00:20:56 that was used to steal a car.
00:20:56 --> 00:20:56 Ooh.
00:20:56 --> 00:20:58 And it drove under a car.
00:20:58 --> 00:20:59 It lifted it up, and it drove it away.
00:20:59 --> 00:20:59 Wow.
00:20:59 --> 00:21:03 So there's a good side and a bad side of technology lurking
00:21:03 --> 00:21:04 out there from my perspective.
00:21:04 --> 00:21:05 Wow.
00:21:06 --> 00:21:07 That's fascinating.
00:21:07 --> 00:21:07 We'll put the link
00:21:07 --> 00:21:09 in to that YouTube as well.
00:21:09 --> 00:21:11 Okay, that sounds great.
00:21:11 --> 00:21:16 So, you know, the, the conversation continues, but we obviously on Energy
00:21:16 --> 00:21:21 Matters care a lot about electric vehicles and hybrid vehicles and uh,
00:21:21 --> 00:21:25 we are hoping that, uh, there's lots more opportunity and certainly now with
00:21:25 --> 00:21:29 fast chargers all over the country, it's much easier to drive that ev.
00:21:30 --> 00:21:31 So thanks so much for listening.
00:21:31 --> 00:21:34 This is Energy Matters with Claire and.
00:21:34 --> 00:21:34 Dan.